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QUESTION OF THE WEEK: Underwater

Postby Triadian » Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:24 am

were considering allowing people to swim in the sea and rivers.

is this a good idea ? bad idea? what does it add ?

what could we put in the sea that would help you to survive ?

how should we stop you swimming to areas that are not open yet ? invis wall or massive shark with super long range eyesight ?
"it would separate this project from others because the devs are cool and have a clue :-)"
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Re: QUESTION OF THE WEEK: Underwater

Postby Jetcutter » Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:47 pm

Swimming would allow for resources, Spearfishing, fording rivers. Increased realism as well
I think a invisible wall would be sufficient to stop folks.
I like it.
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Re: QUESTION OF THE WEEK: Underwater

Postby Triadian » Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:57 pm

Jetcutter wrote:Swimming would allow for resources,

such as ?
Jetcutter wrote: Spearfishing,

done on foot
Jetcutter wrote:fording rivers.

naturally present - if at some point we allow creating a ford it would be done by foot
Jetcutter wrote: Increased realism as well

agreed - we do plan on having it when the whole island opens but only as a means of transport at the moment
Jetcutter wrote:I think a invisible wall would be sufficient to stop folks.

most people hate invis walls though.
Jetcutter wrote:I like it.

we like it too but cant see any benefit other than travel - which at this stage we want to discourage
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Re: QUESTION OF THE WEEK: Underwater

Postby Jetcutter » Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:10 pm

Well, I had underwater spearfishing in mind, but ok. Was thinking pearl harvesting for in game economy.
As for invis. walls, wouldn't that be simpler than focusing Dev. resources on Hypersensitive Vision Enhanced Sharks?
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Re: QUESTION OF THE WEEK: Underwater

Postby whiskers434 » Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:31 pm

i think having swimming and then diving under water would be very cool

there could be resources under the sea that the player needs to dive for like sea food, pearls, sea weed etc

there could also be under water caves or part submerged mines that require diving under the water for a bit to navigate further.

i think finding a cave with am under water entrance would be a great place for a secret base
think a reset and wipe will fix that...
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Re: QUESTION OF THE WEEK: Underwater

Postby Triadian » Sat Jun 27, 2015 5:17 pm

Jetcutter wrote:Well, I had underwater spearfishing in mind, but ok. Was thinking pearl harvesting for in game economy.

not sure how players would manage to build a harpoon from resources on an island ???
i like the pearl diving bit though. would make the sea a haven for pearls and give travelling merchants something to take to the mainland.

Jetcutter wrote:As for invis. walls, wouldn't that be simpler than focusing Dev. resources on Hypersensitive Vision Enhanced Sharks?

no the animal base code is mostly done - would just mean creating a very aggressive animal in the sea and setting its range very high for sight
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Re: QUESTION OF THE WEEK: Underwater

Postby Jetcutter » Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:48 pm

Well then, Release the Beast :P
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Re: QUESTION OF THE WEEK: Underwater

Postby TheeLord » Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:59 pm

Jetcutter wrote:Well then, Release the Beast :P


I dunno if I agree with this. Dying is not a "oh well" event in Factions. Even if we put warnings, people will be like "WTF I didn't think I would get killed by a random shark! I would personally rather have invis wall or give them a slow ticking death by invisible "jellyfish" or something so they have time to escape certain death.
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Re: QUESTION OF THE WEEK: Underwater

Postby Triadian » Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:17 pm

can we not just play "duh duh, duh duh" and have it getting louder and louder :P

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Re: QUESTION OF THE WEEK: Underwater

Postby Jetcutter » Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:17 am

Triadian wrote:can we not just play "duh duh, duh duh" and have it getting louder and louder :P


I like this, perhaps add a on screen timer to demise, or respawn. (Is this permadeath :? ) ?
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Re: QUESTION OF THE WEEK: Underwater

Postby Triadian » Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:33 am

Jetcutter wrote:I like this, perhaps add a on screen timer to demise, or respawn. (Is this permadeath :? ) ?


we are currently giving players 3 choices upon death quick slow or perma - with different levels of penalties - this is ontop of the good/bad player penalty that you would of accrued throughout your life.

Question of the week:Death

Not sure if it will stay like that forever or if we will change it for whatever system gets used the most, but we thought we would give players a choice of how badly death effects them until we make a decision.
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Re: QUESTION OF THE WEEK: Underwater

Postby Khranos » Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:41 pm

I'd love to see underwater areas become a "second mainland" kind of deal. For most games, water is usually just the place that's in the way, and only needs to be explored a couple of times to get what you need. Many exclusive resources would definitely help that, and also as mentioned above, special areas of sorts which give you a desire to explore throughout.

As for keeping people out of areas that you can't go into, definitely keep away from invisible walls -- at least in my personal experience, it kills my immersion. A game with no invisible walls can easily boast such a feature, and it's most definitely a feature people crave.

I've got two suggestions as to how to deal with that. The first, if you'll have any sort of temperature feature in the game, maybe have something to where waters that are too far out are "too cold to navigate", causing players to slowly die when they venture too far. Just pre-plan the extra area to be just large enough to allow a player going at full speeds with maximum health to die, and if absolutely necessary, include some invisible walls at the very end. As an alternative to a "too cold" feature, maybe have some sort of dangerous bacteria (not really physical) which will have the same effect as the cold water, and have something to warn players either then they first start playing, when they get near water masses that contain them far enough out, or when they actually hit it. Maybe the water could be darker, contain slush (for the cold feature), or have moving particles (for the bacteria) to signify an area that isn't safe.

Just my two cents, it's nice to see a lot of thought is going into this usually mistreated area.
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Re: QUESTION OF THE WEEK: Underwater

Postby Ameridat » Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:11 am

One basic reason to have water travel, is travel. The water provides isolation. Swimming on top of the water is something I see appropriate. Swimming on top of water should make a character vulnerable to projectile attack from shore.

As for UNDER water. I have mixed feelings. Hover craft swimming is rather overdone, and to me feels artificial. Physics swimming based on thrust, buoyancy, and direction might be interesting, but might not be a good fit with the overall direction of the game. I don't see much meaningful activity while under water, unless pickup items can be under water (either player dropped or developer placed).

Water walking as an ability is fun, but might not be a good fit unless the genre is high fantasy.
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Re: QUESTION OF THE WEEK: Underwater

Postby RajCaj » Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:32 pm

Triadian wrote:were considering allowing people to swim in the sea and rivers.

is this a good idea ? bad idea? what does it add ?


It's not that it's a bad idea, just one that I think doesn't add a whole lot to the game that can't otherwise be achieved with on-land play.

Most of the things you'd do underwater would just be an extension of what you can already do on land.

Swim to collect resources? You can collect resources on land....and you can do other things to the placement of the on-land resources that would increase the scarcity & value...similar to what underwater resources could provide.

You can also collect resources from the water from the surface via fishing, trolling, etc....which I think should be higher on the priority list for water related features.

Like some of the other games have done, you could stagger the ability to explore under water areas (via swimming) as a geographic / content expansion. Underwater caverns, caves or tunnels could be introduced as a PvE part of an expansion.

You could, of course, release it right out of the gate, but my feeling is folks will be pre-occupied with all the stuff to do on-land to need access to additional content that's underwater. Also, staging this stuff out creates less pressure to come up with *something else* come expansion time...after most have played & experienced all the current content.

Triadian wrote:what could we put in the sea that would help you to survive ?


A little cheesy, but other games that use a finite breath capacity for underwater swimming put nodes on the bottom of the ocean floor that allow you to recharge your breath meter. These could be air pockets, or air bubbling up from the ocean floor, etc.

Not sure if this is even a feature, but I suppose you could also use animal taming or control to increase your movement speed underwater by riding dolphins or large fish

There could also be resources you can harvest underwater (either from a resource node or by looting an underwater NPC) resources that will buff your ability to breathe underwater (either giving your greater capacity or reduce rate of reduction)

And if we are talking about things that would help you survive in places other than underwater, any number of resources that can be harvested or looted that would improve your gear, buff your character, or increase your wealth would be helpful.

Triadian wrote:how should we stop you swimming to areas that are not open yet ? invis wall or massive shark with super long range eyesight ?


Invis walls are effective, but if you have the resources already in place to use something a little more realistic / immersive.....having "sharks" guard the boundaries would be a cool way to keep players in the fence. You could even mix it up with other underwater life like giant squids or a kraken!

All that said, I think it's an interesting venture, but if you guys are resource constrained at all.....things like developing a robust fishing & boating system should take higher priority.
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